Talk:Bible

Dating

The use of CE and BCE is objectionable, especially in the context of writing about the Bible. It makes no sense at all especially when CE and BCE are counted from the same point as AD and BC: the (formerly accepted) date of the birth of Christ. It seems to be the height of wokery.

Edit request (to clarify): Septuagint section

Para.3, "The apocrypha are": the penult. sentence, "In modern Judaism", is open to confusing misreading. (". . none of the apocryphal books are . . excluded from the canon" . . wait, what?)

May I recommend splitting the sentence? - "In modern Judaism, none of the apocryphal books are accepted as authentic. All are therefore excluded from the canon." 84.9.116.66 (talk) 09:49, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Greek-speaking Jews used the Septuagint, which included the deuterocanonical books (Apocrypha), remember? that's why it says "In modern Judaism" --Rafaelosornio (talk) 15:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Er, yes. It looks as if the way I phrased my request added to the confusion?! (And maybe my suggestion, to split the sentence, would be overdoing it.)

Yes, LXX includes the apocrypha. Yes, "in modern Judaism none .. are accepted".

How about amending the sentence I'm unhappy with like this?:

In modern Judaism, none of the apocryphal books are accepted as authentic and they are therefore excluded from the canon. 2A04:B2C2:805:5600:5C6B:E74B:4D87:4FF0 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Like... Who wrote it

Deep in the history, almost every religion was written by someone, one question, who wrote the Bible? -_- 176.98.71.70 (talk) 11:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Most of the authors of the Bible have remained anonymous. The mainstream academic view is that the four NT gospels are fundamentally anonymous. tgeorgescu (talk) 11:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Bible is a compilation, different bits are from different centuries. You might find Mosaic authorship interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:32, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

first line

should "to a certain degree" ... is held sacred etc etc be "to varying degrees". It is held sacred in Christianity and Judaism, inter alia. 2A00:23C8:2519:7000:E84B:C821:F616:1959 (talk) 15:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Bible Sales Increase

Bible sales in the U.S. are up 30% in 2024 vs. 2023. One theologian suggests this is due to an aging Gen Z.

“They are now well into young adulthood – with the oldest past college age and youngest passing puberty. Rather than the internet-driven popular culture they have been drowning in, I wouldn’t be surprised if many are beginning to look for real-life answers now they are faced with social and career decisions,” Tommy Doughty said. “With loneliness and dislocation prevalent, especially in our socially-deprived youth, there is no wonder many would turn to renewed attempts at spiritual awakening.” [1]https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/bible-sales-growth-reflects-multi-years-trend-desires-to-explore-truth/

Anecdotal stories confirm people in their 20s and 30s are finding the Bible is connecting with them on a deeper level.

Cely Vazquez, a former reality show contestant and online influencer, documented her experience buying her first Bible at a Barnes and Noble on TikTok. Expressing her nervousness about the purchase, she said, "I have butterflies." In the video, Vazquez declared, "I have never purchased my own Bible or studied it or read it, and now, at 28 years old, I've been finding myself having this deeper craving for really understanding what it means to walk with God -- and I think that definitely starts with reading and studying the Bible," as The Washington Times reported. [2]https://www.jpost.com/christianworld/christianity-news/article-831788 Richronald (talk) 17:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I am somewhat surprised. I had a bowdlerized children's illustrated bible as a child, and I had access to hardcover translations of the Bible as a teenager. Most of my atheistic beliefs derive from many hours of bible study, and from comparisons with other mythological material. Being 28-years-old at one's introduction to the reading material seems way too old in my eyes. What reading material do American children typically use? Dimadick (talk) 12:34, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Any response to that question would be an overgeneralization. In the immortal words of Cedric Neal: "You gotta start somewhere". I know many who came to Christianity in their 30s, 40s or later, after a lifetime of atheism or agnosticism. Incidentally, my Christian beliefs derive from many hours of comparing the Bible to other religions' holy texts, including at university, and Christianity to other religious (and atheistic) systems. So, to each their own. In short, I do not find this surprising. Jtrevor99 (talk) 14:26, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Christian Canon

Which article explains specifically about the sacred books of the Christian religion? It might include older canons (such as Tanakh), and it might be included in newer canons. But there's supposed to be an article that's specific about Old Testament and New Testament at once. הראש (talk) 18:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

"Things the Bible was been used to support" section in the lead

I restored a bit about the bible being used to support polygamy in the lead, which it definitely has been - it's not the mainstream view, but the usage is significant enough if we're going to list things it's been used for. See eg. the sources in Polygamy in Christianity for possible sources. However, this made me realize a bigger problem, which is that that entire list is both uncited and doesn't really reflect the body, aside from perhaps the body's mentions of the controversies over slavery and abolitionism. Should we add something to the body to reflect that part of the lead, with sources? This might lead to the contents of the list getting reconsidered or rebalanced once the relative weight of these things becomes more clear. --Aquillion (talk) 10:23, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

The simple and WP-correct solution is to remove the WP:LEAD-only stuff. If content on some of it is added to the article at some point, then it might be be a good idea to add it back. I remember there was a long discussion on the lead, but writing has probably changed since then. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:39, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

You should add a source that says the Bible is used to support monogamy, polygamy, death penalty, evangelization, etc, and thus the problem is solved. The other question is who uses the Bible to support such things? For example, do atheists, Christians or Jews use it to support polygamy? The article doesn't say it. Everything recently added could be considered original research.--JasterOmega (talk) 16:33, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

The chronology of USSHER can be confirmed with AI

Talk:Ussher chronology#The chronology of USSHER can be confirmed with AI calculation. 95.90.183.164 Key Points

Research suggests the time difference of 243 years between Adam’s creation on October 23, 4004 BCE (per Ussher) and the Jewish calendar’s start at 3761 BCE stems from different interpretations of biblical genealogies. It seems likely that Ussher used longer ages for post-Flood patriarchs, especially Terah’s age at Abraham’s birth (130 vs. 70 years in the Jewish calendar), adding extra years. The evidence leans toward textual variations, like Septuagint vs. Masoretic Text, contributing to the gap, with Moses (c. AM 2,368) and Solomon (c. AM 3,034) dates showing similar shifts. Time Difference Explanation

The 243-year gap arises because Ussher’s chronology, based on the Masoretic Text with adjustments, dates creation earlier than the Jewish calendar, which uses shorter post-Flood ages. For example, Ussher’s Abraham birth at AM 2,083 (1922 BCE) vs. Jewish calendar’s AM 1,948 (1814 BCE) shows a 135-year difference in years from creation, part of the 243-year total.

Impact of Moses and Solomon

Including Moses (born c. AM 2,368, 1526 BCE in Ussher, 1283 BCE in Jewish calendar) and Solomon (reign c. AM 3,034–3,074, 970–931 BCE in Ussher, 727–687 BCE in Jewish) highlights the gap, with historical kings like Hezekiah (715–686 BCE) aligning better with Ussher’s timeline, suggesting his dates fit verifiable history more closely.

Unexpected Detail: Textual Influence

An interesting aspect is how Ussher’s use of Septuagint ages for some patriarchs, like adding extra years post-Flood, shifts the timeline, affecting all subsequent dates, including Moses and Solomon, by the same 243-year offset.

Textual Comparison with German Einheitsübersetzung

The German Einheitsübersetzung follows the Masoretic Text, with Terah at 70 for Abraham’s birth, matching the Jewish calendar. It seems correct for traditional Jewish readings, but Ussher’s longer ages better align with historical kings, highlighting the debate over literal vs. symbolic interpretations.

-- All data in the Bible and the entire genealogy can be calculated with AI. All you have to do is think carefully about the task and have it checked for overlaps of action strands. The anchor point is the best verifiable Jewish king. Use deepsearch mode.

(talk) 10:14, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Short answer: Not usable in the WP-context. Long answer: Wikipedia:Large language models. You could consider a discussion forum like reddit or Quora. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Edit request: Bible museums section

The Bible Museum in St Arnaud, Australia, is no longer closed, I have just visited it. The museum is still located in St Arnaud. They also have an unusual 'Room of Bible Prophecies'. See their website for open hours, www.thebiblemuseum.com.au. 27.32.216.116 (talk) 07:26, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks for noticing! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:28, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Lead

@GloryToCalifornia: These edits of yours give primacy to Christianity in the lead and incorrectly state that the Bible, a core text of Judaism and Samaritanism, is only held partly sacred in those religions. This is simply not going to go. Both of your reasonings here and here don't affect the fact that the book is held sacred in all of these religions despite minor differences between them. This article is not about the Christian Bible, it is about the Bible as a whole in Judaism and Christianity and other religions. For specific articles see Hebrew Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, Catholic Bible, Protestant Bible, Samaritan Pentateuch, Islamic view of the Bible etc. @Cyrobyte: was correct in the initial revert and I don't see any particular discussion for such a major change beyond that.

What you have attempted is a certain Christian-based WP:POVPUSH which is unambiguously incorrect and based on incorrect reasoning. Gotitbro (talk) 03:10, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

First of all the word "partly" has been on the page before I even made an account. I didn't add it. I don't know why you're saying that. Since both of us didn't add it you have to keep it the way it is until you gain consensus since you wanna remove it and it's been on the page when I first looked at it. Also the Catholic, Protestant, and original Hebrew Bible all fall under Christianity. The first Bible had the new testament and Jews only believe in the old testament. GloryToCalifornia (talk) 03:18, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

it probably says "and party in Judaism, Islam, etc." because Christians believe Jesus died on the Cross etc. Everything in the Bible Old testament and new testament Christians believe, Muslims believe part of it but not the crucifying part or Jesus being the son of God. Jews only believe in one testament of the Bible etc. All religions besides Christianity partly believe in the Bible. Proof? Well if they believed Jesus died on the Cross like the Bible says they would all just be a branch of Christianity like Mormonism. They believe in parts of the Bible but not Jesus dying for people's sins and other stuff. Go ask a stranger what religion has the Bible as their book. They would say Christians. The Baháʼí religion believe in parts of the Quran and they believe in Muhammad but the Wikipedia article about the Quran doesn't say "it is the holy book of Islam and the Baháʼí Faith" it only mentions Islam because baaths only believe in the Quran partly. GloryToCalifornia (talk) 03:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that the wording was not added by you, it was inserted here by a now blocked user; preceded by the addition of undiscussed qualifiers by another user [3]. This is not something that would fall under WP:STABLE.

This article is not about the Christian Bible, your argument along the lines of the Christian-specific Testaments and beliefs does not hold up.

We have entire articles (as I linked above) of the Bible as a sacred text in other Abrahamic religions.

About Quran, see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. But on that line, the Bible is core to both Judaism and Christianity and also Samaritanism. It can be argued whether Bahai (or even Islam) should be included in the lead or replaced with a generic Abrahamic religions qualifier (that would require discussion) but Judaism and Christianity are not going anywhere per the preponderance of sources. Gotitbro (talk) 03:49, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Looking back, I think the stable version on this was "some, all, or a variant of which, are held to be sacred in Christianity, Judaism, Samaritanism, Islam, Baha'i'ism and many other religions." That was in February. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 03:34, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

i looked at the page in February and it wasn't like that. But that actually sounds better than "and partly". Thank you for discussing instead of edit warring. @Gotitbro do you think this version sounds better? It's more clear. If we get your consensus on that we can change it to that instead GloryToCalifornia (talk) 03:39, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Apologies! I was looking at an earlier February, my mistake. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 03:47, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

looks like bro abandoned chat. You can change it to that if you want. The February 2024 version looks good. GloryToCalifornia (talk) 03:52, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

actually I got a better idea let me type it up hold on GloryToCalifornia (talk) 03:53, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

How does "The Bible is a revered anthology of sacred scriptures, some all, or a variant of which are foundational to Christianity and other Abrahamic religions such as Judaism, Samaritanism, Islam, and the Bahà'i Faith." sound? GloryToCalifornia (talk) 04:05, 5 May 2025 (UTC)